My buddy let me drive his 6spd Z28 again the other day! I got on it about a lil over half throttle and its still amazingly powerful! I keep makin my mind up to get a Cobalt SS and then I go and do somethin like this. I wanted to cut some donuts but it was his car so I just asked him to do it and he did. There was tiresmoke EVERYWHERE LOL!! We had the tops off too and you could smell it! I LOVE that smell!

Hey DarricksZ28, do you know if they really did anything between the years of 98 and 02 to boost the hp or did they just claim more, I know it was underrated whatever the case?!?! Also did the SS REALLY have more hp or again was that just another claim?

What do yall think? Im thinkin bout gettin an 02 Camaro SS and getting an 06 Cobalt SS maybe "for my girlfriend". How does that sound??

There weren't any substantial increases in the Z28 power from 98-02. I think it was 305hp in 98 and up to 310 in 2002. The SS always made a bit more power, I think the last 2002 SS cars made 333.

Can't go wrong with an LS1. Those cars rock. :)

Yeah man, the rumble is what gets me! I just love that sound and powerful vibration through the drivetrain!

Yeah, there's nothing quite like a haul-ass V8. I love em.

I got the Cobalt for a couple reasons. The interior is lightyears ahead. As is most of the rest of the car.... I love Camaros, but they're clunky, loud, noisy pieces of crap. :) I just wanted something a little "nicer". But you're right... can't argue with an LS1.

(Had a chance to drive a C6 a little while ago - if you thought the LS1 was great, wait till you try that beast. It literally scared the crap out of me. :) )

Contrary to marketing ploys and popular belief, all LS1 powered cars made viurtually the same amount of power from the factory (barring the existance of statistical anamolies known as "factory freaks" and "slugs"). This includes Corvettes... try convincing a Corvette owner that his car makes the same power as a $20K Z28, and he'll probably get really pissed off and tell you you don't know anything... the only thing is... you would be correct. In fact, due to the Corvettes trans-axle and IRS, there is often more drivetrain loss and the f-bodies will often make MORE horsepower at the rear wheels.

Generally speaking, the 01 and 02 f-bodies tend to be just a bit stronger than their pre-01 counterparts- thanks to the LS6 intake manifold. However, the '00 has the hottest cam (it isn't like any of the stock cams could be considered remotely "hot" though...)

A4 f-bodies can expect to lay down 290-310 rwhp in stock form - varying by production variances, weather, dyno, dyno operator, etc... M6 f-bodies can expect anywhere from about 300 rwhp to 320 rwhp on average... I have seen dyno numbers claiming as high as 325 rwhp bone stock down to the paper filter.

Ram Air? Don't worry about it, it's basically a gimmick. At 100 mph, the increased airflow generates about a 3 HP improvement over stock. Is 3 HP enough to overcome the wind-brake the intake creates at those speeds? Unlikely. Basically, Ram Air can't even get out of its own way. The best function of the Ram Air hoods is to bring cooler air to the intake - they are much more affective at this than they are "ramming" the air into the intake. Z28 vs SS will be a driver's race every time. They have the same engine, and they make the same power (excluding variances). The fastsest f-body ever tested by a magazine was actually a Z28. Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords laid down a heroic 12.8 with it.

In short... you can expect the LS1 motor in 98+ f-bodies to be generating anywhere between 340 horsepower and 360 horsepower at the crank... this goes for all models - Z28, SS, Trans Am, Formula, WS6, and Firehawk.

Yeah man, the rumble is what gets me! I just love that sound and powerful vibration through the drivetrain!


You should have bought my car before I sold it!

'02 WS6 in mint condition, M6, t-tops... intake, full exhaust with cats removed, LS1edit dyno tuning.... 345 rwhp and 360 rwtq.

It sold for $16,911

I love Camaros, but they're clunky, loud, noisy pieces of crap. :)

I wouldnt go so far as to call em crap! LOL They can be rattle traps but they are still awesome cars!

It literally scared the crap out of me. :)

If only I could be so lucky!

Z28 vs SS will be a driver's race every time.

I agree 100%!! I've always said that!! My buddy (with the Z28) was scared (not really scared just thought he was DEFINITELY gonna lose) to race another one of our friend's WS6. Everything else the same LS1, T56, even both had T-tops, pwr windows/locks, everything was the same save for the Make and the fact that the Trans Am had a "ram air" hood on it. I told him he was crazy...

You should have bought my car before I sold it!

'02 WS6 in mint condition, M6, t-tops... intake, full exhaust with cats removed, LS1edit dyno tuning.... 345 rwhp and 360 rwtq.

It sold for $16,911

Man! My dream car is a 2002 Black Camaro SS w/ leather interior, T-tops, T-56, and the SLP package(just cause I like the red SS emblems and most of the SLP package cars -if not all- had those)! But I would have DEFINITELY settled for your car!!! What color was it? Please dont tell me it was black...

Man! My dream car is a 2002 Black Camaro SS w/ leather interior, T-tops, T-56, and the SLP package(just cause I like the red SS emblems and most of the SLP package cars -if not all- had those)! But I would have DEFINITELY settled for your car!!! What color was it? Please dont tell me it was black...



The former ride:

http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/722288c.jpg

Man you're breakin my heart!!! I coulda had that EASY!!! How long ago did ya sell it?!?!

Where's Mr. JDM? I was hoping for him to post the mileage stats and tell us how u could make a honda hang with these beasts.

I've had 2 Camaro's and I just never could really like the interior, or how I sat in the car. Both of them Z28's. I actually enjoyed my '87 Z more than the '94. Loved the rumble of the V-8, but loved my Mustang's sound even better. I play on both sides of the domestic field, the 4 cyl and the v-8's and even though I just now got into the turbo 4cyl now I have the internet vette/stang/z28 people telling me I have no idea about v-8's and I am a wannabe. You are living in denial if you don't think a CobaltSS, Srt-4 or a Honda Civic will whoop a V-8 with a good driver. It has to be some sort of pride issue,

I've had 2 Camaro's and I just never could really like the interior, or how I sat in the car. Both of them Z28's. I actually enjoyed my '87 Z more than the '94. Loved the rumble of the V-8, but loved my Mustang's sound even better. I play on both sides of the domestic field, the 4 cyl and the v-8's and even though I just now got into the turbo 4cyl now I have the internet vette/stang/z28 people telling me I have no idea about v-8's and I am a wannabe. You are living in denial if you don't think a CobaltSS, Srt-4 or a Honda Civic will whoop a V-8 with a good driver. It has to be some sort of pride issue,
I'm sorry but Honda Civic? A civic with ALOT of mods sure that can happen. Do not say civic though. A stock civic is no where near the performance of a Z28 / Trans Am. The two other cars you mentioned need a few mods to stick with them. Sure any car can whoop any car, depends on who's the bad driver.

I love my Camaro and i hate the gas mileage i may not be a V-8 but the 6 still loves to drink that gas. And i have driven a few V-8's but i would love to have a IROC-Z but i just dont think it would be smart for me becuase of all of the driven i have to do. That is why i am converting to a Four cylinder. And i have seen some VERY fast four cylinders out there.

I have witnessed a Geo Storm whoop an '04 Vette at a local track back home, a Dodge caravan tear apart anything that came across it's path, and a Ford Pinto that you would absolutely be an idiot to try and race. (Pinto with a 460 in it, yeah.) People jsut don't like to admit they got beat by a smaller engine.
If you beat a 4cyl with a v-8...what real bragging rights do you have? A 350+HP beat a 240HP neon, your friends would probably laugh at you because you are racing a neon anyway so you have to church it up by saying well it was an SRT-4 with a turbo, but on the other hand....an SRT/SS what have you beating a vette....different story cause then the v-8 guy will be pissed and come back with a ...well you drive a cavalier or a neon B.S. instead of giving props.
People these days have too big an ego for their car and always think it is the fastest on the street.

There some one who talks the truth.^^^ I agree to the fullest.

I have witnessed a Geo Storm whoop an '04 Vette at a local track back home

Thats just funny :D

People these days have too big an ego for their car and always think it is the fastest on the street.

Best statement of his whole argument AND the entire discussion!

There i liked the statement so much i put in in my SIG.

Man you're breakin my heart!!! I coulda had that EASY!!! How long ago did ya sell it?!?!

Less than a week...

If you beat a 4cyl with a v-8...what real bragging rights do you have?

You have the bragging rights that you won the race.

I'm not going to call you a ricer, or tell you that you don't know anything about V8s, etc... but your logic is seriously flawed.

I thought the whole point of a race was to make it to the finish line quicker. How people somewhere along the line got the idea that nitrous is "cheating", or that a V8 should "pull 4 plugs" to make it even is downright asinine. If I have 4 more cylinders than you, and I have nitrous... then my car is a V8 with nitrous and I'd be a damn idiot not to use the power I have. Run what you brung... excuses are made by the driver of the slower car.

The other thing you are forgetting in a SRT-4 vs. Z28 type comparison is the forced induction the SRT has. The Z28 has 4 more cylinders? Fine. The SRT has a turbo. You do realize that for every 14.7 psi of boost thrown at a motor, the effective displacement and A/F being consumed is doubled, right? That means a 2.5L STi with 12 lbs of boost is operating very similarly to a 5.0L DOHC N/A V8. People rave about the specific power output (HP/L - which is a garbage statistic in the first place), but they don't realize it's practically the same thing. Tell someone you are producing 300 HP with a DOHC 5.0L V8, and you'll hear shit like, "yeah but you got 4 more cylinders", or "that's all the HP you can make with 5.0L??? Shit, I'm making 300 HP out of my turbo 2.5L" ... stupid arguments.......

A couple more things... you said a Cobalt SS or SRT-4 could whip on your 94 Z28 if they were driven properly. That's pretty close to accurate because the 94 Z28 was LT1 powered... if you take on a LS1 Z28 (98+), you wouldn't fare nearly as well, and the driver would have to start making serious errors before the SS or SRT could keep pace. We all know that a Dodge Omni can beat a Ferrari when the universe aligns... but for the sake of an intelligent argument, let's assume grandma isn't driving any of these cars, ok? The discussion was about the CAR, not the driver.

And finally, you menioned a Ford Pinto with a 460, and then went on to say, people hate getting beat by a car with a smaller engine. A 460 is a bigger engine than a Camaro has (346)... so I'm not sure what you were trying to say there...

I am never going to be pissed off if a lose to a car with a smaller motor. The only time I am going to be pissed is if I lose to a slower car... and in that case, I'll only have myself to blame.

The Z28 tends to be quicker in the quarter mile because it's lighter than the SS. The SS has larger sway bars and also the 17" rims that help cornering but hurt overall acceleration. Also the 01-02 models come with the LS6 manifold, where the 98-00 have the regular LS1 manifold with the EGR in the intake path. There is a mod for that. The 98 also has a different PCM. The exhaust manifolds are different. The injectors are smaller, so when nitrous is used a smaller jet is needed with the stock system as not to cause a lean condition. The LS1 is a beast stock, and once the mods start coming. :eek:

The Z28 tends to be quicker in the quarter mile because it's lighter than the SS. The SS has larger sway bars and also the 17" rims that help cornering but hurt overall acceleration. Also the 01-02 models come with the LS6 manifold, where the 98-00 have the regular LS1 manifold with the EGR in the intake path. There is a mod for that. The 98 also has a different PCM. The exhaust manifolds are different. The injectors are smaller, so when nitrous is used a smaller jet is needed with the stock system as not to cause a lean condition. The LS1 is a beast stock, and once the mods start coming. :eek:


The Z28 tends to be quicker than the SS until the Z28 driver weighs 30 more lbs than the SS driver.

Seriously... sway bars and rims? Come on, we are nit-picking here. Neither car "tends" to be faster than the other... it's a complete driver's race every time.

Here is a pic of my buddy's 99 T/A he sold it....

http://s-seriesforum.com/albums/OffRoadZR2001/robs_TA.sized.jpg

You have the bragging rights that you won the race.

I'm not going to call you a ricer, or tell you that you don't know anything about V8s, etc... but your logic is seriously flawed.

I thought the whole point of a race was to make it to the finish line quicker. How people somewhere along the line got the idea that nitrous is "cheating", or that a V8 should "pull 4 plugs" to make it even is downright asinine. If I have 4 more cylinders than you, and I have nitrous... then my car is a V8 with nitrous and I'd be a damn idiot not to use the power I have. Run what you brung... excuses are made by the driver of the slower car.

The other thing you are forgetting in a SRT-4 vs. Z28 type comparison is the forced induction the SRT has. The Z28 has 4 more cylinders? Fine. The SRT has a turbo. You do realize that for every 14.7 psi of boost thrown at a motor, the effective displacement and A/F being consumed is doubled, right? That means a 2.5L STi with 12 lbs of boost is operating very similarly to a 5.0L DOHC N/A V8. People rave about the specific power output (HP/L - which is a garbage statistic in the first place), but they don't realize it's practically the same thing. Tell someone you are producing 300 HP with a DOHC 5.0L V8, and you'll hear shit like, "yeah but you got 4 more cylinders", or "that's all the HP you can make with 5.0L??? Shit, I'm making 300 HP out of my turbo 2.5L" ... stupid arguments.......

A couple more things... you said a Cobalt SS or SRT-4 could whip on your 94 Z28 if they were driven properly. That's pretty close to accurate because the 94 Z28 was LT1 powered... if you take on a LS1 Z28 (98+), you wouldn't fare nearly as well, and the driver would have to start making serious errors before the SS or SRT could keep pace. We all know that a Dodge Omni can beat a Ferrari when the universe aligns... but for the sake of an intelligent argument, let's assume grandma isn't driving any of these cars, ok? The discussion was about the CAR, not the driver.

And finally, you menioned a Ford Pinto with a 460, and then went on to say, people hate getting beat by a car with a smaller engine. A 460 is a bigger engine than a Camaro has (346)... so I'm not sure what you were trying to say there...

I am never going to be pissed off if a lose to a car with a smaller motor. The only time I am going to be pissed is if I lose to a slower car... and in that case, I'll only have myself to blame.

Ok I'm asking where the bragging rights are because a big V-8 taking on that 4 cyl winning then talking shit is like the big high school football player going in and beating up on some weakly retarded kids with down syndrome then walking out and bragging to all his friends..... yeah it was a given going into it... you should have beat them but if you did do you have to talk your crap afterwards trying to prove something.
As for the v-8's put out this HP turbo 4's do this. Ok a WRX/EVO turbo is a different batch of apples than a FWD SRT-4. Why aren't people talking crap about beating turbo Supra's all the time, I hardly ever hear this from any V8 guys.
Getting to the finish line quicker.... who knows unless you were there watching it who is lying. What if the car that won got a big jump the 2nd car didnt know they were racing, he ends up losing now the 1st guy goes back bragging to all his friends. There are too many what if's.... the Z28 I beat in my neon then comes with the Oh I missed a gear, let's race again... he lost again...he didn't stop to talk after that.
The Geo, caravan, pinto statement was telling the 1st person that any car can be made to win. No matter how crappy a vehicle it is. Check out the neon and cobalt.
Have you seen the srtgurl vid when she outruns a viper, with about $1,500 of mods on her car, basically tires, tuning, and driving. A viper...a V10...a 4cyl making what 250-270hp tops at the time.
and you're probably better off not calling me a ricer. Just because I bought a turbo domestic car for my wife doesn't make me some 17yr old H.S. kid thinking he is the shit with the big wing and whoosh sound.
but I did read a good quote before and I will stop with that..."arguing over the internet is like winning the special olympics, you may win but you're still retarded."

I think in general you got a little too hot and bothered by my post. It wasn't meant to flame you.

Anyway, the answer to your quesiton about why V8 guys don't brag about beating a Turbo Supra is probably because they pretty much never do... lol...

ANYWHO! LOL! Back to my question, what do you guys tink I should get an SS or an SS? LOL sorry, an 02 Camaro SS or an 06 Cobalt SS? Like I said I could get the Camaro and get the Cobalt later on "for my girlfriend" ;) ;)

Opinions???

Well if you can find a Camaro SS for a good price why not.

I have to be honest... I would choose a Cobalt SS over my WS6 straight up. The Cobalt is obviously nowhere near as fast, but it is the better car.

Yeah but Ive been droolin over Camaros ever since Ive known how to drool ;)
Its my dream car! :)

I know i love camaro's that is why i have mine but my dream Camaro would be a 69' Yenko. :D :D

I would say if you are going for something that is going to last you quite a while and still fun to drive go for the Cobalt since you already like them.
The Camaro SS would be nice but finding a good price one with low mileage that someone else hasn't already modded up or dogged out will be harder to find. Might luck out though.

I think in general you got a little too hot and bothered by my post. It wasn't meant to flame you.

Anyway, the answer to your quesiton about why V8 guys don't brag about beating a Turbo Supra is probably because they pretty much never do... lol...

yeah I was already having a bad day at work anyway, lol..... being in the desert in kuwait in the summer time...= bad days all around. ;)

I would say if you are going for something that is going to last you quite a while and still fun to drive go for the Cobalt since you already like them.
The Camaro SS would be nice but finding a good price one with low mileage that someone else hasn't already modded up or dogged out will be harder to find. Might luck out though.

The only place you might find a SS that has not been bet and modded would be from a dealer then you should get a car with some life but you got to factor they will mark the car up.

of course...the ol' mark up, if you find someone that absolutely loves their SS, they are going to want an arm and a leg for it. You can sometimes check the local paper or on autotrader, people that lose loved ones and do not know what they have and just want to get rid of the car.

Yeap that is why i would just get new but if you know the history of the car your buying you just can't pass it up.

If you want to buy an ls1 f-body, the only place to go is here:

www.ls1tech.com

You'll find anything from stock to crazily modified... and just about EVERY car on there is well taken care of.

I'm also not sure where the "it won't last you long" idea has come from... I swear to God those cars are bullet proof. Buy one that is in good shape, take care of it, and you will get well over 100K miles on it without a problem - it will still run like new.

SWEET! Thanks man, I preciate it!! Just wish you woulda waited a couple a weeks til you found out I wanted an F-body!!! :D :p .... :(

Thanks again, I'll definittely check this out!!!

I'm also not sure where the "it won't last you long" idea has come from... I swear to God those cars are bullet proof. Buy one that is in good shape, take care of it, and you will get well over 100K miles on it without a problem - it will still run like new.
I am just stating that a brand new well built car is going to be a little more reliable and last longer than an older well built car. If the cars were built to last the identical amount of time, your new '05 Cobalt ss would at least last 7yrs longer than the 98 camaro ss. Plus noone really wants to buy a vehicle with over a hundred grand on the clock to use as a daily driver unless they just want the car very badly and can't find one elsewhere.
It would be nice in a perfect world if everyone changed oil before it was due, never rev'd close to redline, never raced the car, kept well-maintained just so that you can buy it used later down the road for a lot cheaper.
People do lie about maintenance and can get there buddy down at the local jiffy lube to print fake old receipts to look like the vehicle was serviced every 3k.

The Z28 tends to be quicker than the SS until the Z28 driver weighs 30 more lbs than the SS driver.

Seriously... sway bars and rims? Come on, we are nit-picking here. Neither car "tends" to be faster than the other... it's a complete driver's race every time.
He asked for the differences. SO I gave them. Larger sway bars ARE heavier, larger rims ARE heavier. The sway bars are solid. Both the 16" and 17" rims are cast aluminum. In a race every little bit counts. You say ram air is a gimmick? Tell that to the Fast Times Mustang team. They picked up a solid .2 and 2 mph on a 6 sec car by building a ram air scoop to duct air into the turbo. The sealed ram air on my 28 is good for a tenth and 1 mph, and yes I tested it at the track. A solid gain was seen. That may not sound like a lot, but on the street it's the difference between losing by a fender and winning by a car. Even a full tank of gas will hurt your performance. So two cars with identical drivetrain, but different weights will be a close race. But at the finish the lighter vehicle will win given the drivers are of identical skill. The 98 also has smaller injectors. CoBizzle I say go with the Camaro if you want the potential of building awesome horsepower. If you want something new and has good performance then the Cobalt SS is your choice. The aftermarket will hopefully support the Cobalt SS wholeheartedly. Both cars are a excellent choice in their own right.

He asked for the differences. SO I gave them. Larger sway bars ARE heavier, larger rims ARE heavier. The sway bars are solid. Both the 16" and 17" rims are cast aluminum. In a race every little bit counts. You say ram air is a gimmick? Tell that to the Fast Times Mustang team. They picked up a solid .2 and 2 mph on a 6 sec car by building a ram air scoop to duct air into the turbo. The sealed ram air on my 28 is good for a tenth and 1 mph, and yes I tested it at the track. A solid gain was seen. That may not sound like a lot, but on the street it's the difference between losing by a fender and winning by a car. Even a full tank of gas will hurt your performance. So two cars with identical drivetrain, but different weights will be a close race. But at the finish the lighter vehicle will win given the drivers are of identical skill. The 98 also has smaller injectors. CoBizzle I say go with the Camaro if you want the potential of building awesome horsepower. If you want something new and has good performance then the Cobalt SS is your choice. The aftermarket will hopefully support the Cobalt SS wholeheartedly. Both cars are a excellent choice in their own right.

You clearly know everything. :rolleyes:

But just for shits and giggles... there's no chance the wind wasn't blowing quite as hard, or the temp was slightly lower, or your gas tank had less fuel in it, or you had a better DA, or you shifted a little faster when you had your sealed Ram Air box, is there? ... The only thing you are right about is that every little thing DOES matter... which is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to attribute a 1 tenth/1 mph gain to any one modification in particular. I'm sure the sealed box is better than no sealed box - but to give it the full credit for that improvement is silly.

Secondly... your comparison of a Ram Air set up on a 350 HP, 5.7L STREET CAR to a 2500 HP+ 6 second RACE CAR is absolutely laughable. But since you seem to know everything, you probably know that air density exhibits exponential properties as a car's speed increases... it isn't linear. In other words, if a street car with 300 HP sees a 3HP increase (1%) at 100 mph... and a 2500 HP car would see the same increase at 100 mph... 1% = 25 HP. OK, and a 6 second car traps over 200 mph... since the effect of air density versus speed is exponential... we'll call the HP gain 10% now... or 250 HP. (I didn't use real numbers there, they were simplified to be more easily understood.) In short, Ram Air works wonders at exceedingly high speeds and in high horsepower applications. Unfortunately, on a 300 HP car that rarely breaks triple digit speeds, it remains exactly what I said earlier - a gimmick. I'd be happy to refer you to the engineers who proved this to me mathematically - with real life numbers - if you still have problems with it.

Why do I feel like every time I post on this site, somebody is going to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about? ... :mad:

This is why I was saying that I would only really get the ram air T/A basically for the looks. Ram Air is almost exclusively effective in, like Velossity said, high speed apps. Jets, Planes, dragsters, where air is REALLY being forced into the engine, 80-90mph with a small ram air opening is nothing compared to something moving over 200-300mph with a large air intake.

This is why I was saying that I would only really get the ram air T/A basically for the looks. Ram Air is almost exclusively effective in, like Velossity said, high speed apps. Jets, Planes, dragsters, where air is REALLY being forced into the engine, 80-90mph with a small ram air opening is nothing compared to something moving over 200-300mph with a large air intake.
Yeah planes dragsters and HONDA CIVICS right??!?!? LOL Sorry j/k!!

Um...no, not honda civics, I said fast vehicles.

LOL dont let JDM see that post... ;)
j/k JDM!!

that's ok, I wasn't talking about any of our cars at all, bolt-on neons included. Our cars are quick, but not fast.
Same for all the big fast cars and the big bad bullies, there is always going to be a car faster than yours, and there is always going to be someone that can whoop your ....

I didnt catch the last of that, could you repeat it for me?? LOL ;)

Rarely breaks triple digits? My car ran 104 mph in the quarter when it was stock. But since you do know what you're talking about and ram air IS a gimmick. The consistent .2 reduction in my quarter because of the FRA and SSRA is a fluke. I have every quarter mile pass recorded on my computer. I have every time slip for every pass the car has made. I recorded the weather conditions for each night I ran the car. Just because it works out on paper doesn't mean it works out on the street. You can crunch numbers all day, but when it comes down to it every thing on the street is different. And any low cost mod I can do to my car that will help me win that money race I will do. My car is a freak and I'm running consistent 12.3Xs with only $2000 in mods is a dream of mine and the slips are fabricated. You guys believe what you will while us guys on the street ("the real street") say whatever and keep taking your money. :D

Rarely breaks triple digits? My car ran 104 mph in the quarter when it was stock. But since you do know what you're talking about and ram air IS a gimmick. The consistent .2 reduction in my quarter because of the FRA and SSRA is a fluke. I have every quarter mile pass recorded on my computer. I have every time slip for every pass the car has made. I recorded the weather conditions for each night I ran the car. Just because it works out on paper doesn't mean it works out on the street. You can crunch numbers all day, but when it comes down to it every thing on the street is different. And any low cost mod I can do to my car that will help me win that money race I will do. My car is a freak and I'm running consistent 12.3Xs with only $2000 in mods is a dream of mine and the slips are fabricated. You guys believe what you will while us guys on the street ("the real street") say whatever and keep taking your money. :D

Ran 104 stock. So it crossed the line at 104 mph. Which means it spent the entire race accelerating up to that point. So for 12 seconds it was under 100 mph, and for about 5 seconds, it was under 60 mph.

I'm not going to waste any more time with you. You're clearly the typical, cocky, know-it-all meat head who won't listen to someone who knows better. Believe whatever you want. Arguing this further would be a Goddamn waste of my time.

wooooah woooah now... cool it down fellas! Why the hostility guys, come on now everybody play nice!! :)

dang...must be that time of the month

You're a funny guy! LOL. Meat-head? This is hilarious! Arrgghhh!