I'm looking at pulling the Eaton and adding a turbo. A twin screw performs great but is definitely limited to how much boost it can provide. I don't think I'll have any problems throwing it up on ebay. I'll get the added efficiency of a turbo with as much boost as my motor can take.

Without a the supercharger I'll need an intake manifold, can the standard scroll composite intake take boost? The LS1 intake takes a ton of boost but I'm not sure if it's the same material or construction.

So are there any max horsepower numbers for the Fuel System, MAF, and Bottom End, head gasket, etc?

For an all out 1/4 mile machine GM has a 1200 horsepower Hydra-Matic, I wonder if it would fit:
http://www.gmtunertour.com/index.asp?section=B592A7DF2B4D41A78CF337DADAFAA851&page=55CBA209F13F467ABBCA030DD03F98F5

Hey i just rebuilt one of them today hah, it was out of a 99 intriqtue with a 3.5. But it was 100 % production parts i guess.

You're looking at a big BIG tear up to do all that. Have you heard of a company called Gravana? They're currently developing a twin charger setup - adding a turbo IN ADDITION to the supercharger. That way you still get the low-end pull of the supercharger, the top-end of the turbo, and you save yourself from basically ripping the car apart.

Not to mention it'll probably end up being cheaper in the long run - one kit, versus buying new intake & exhaust manifolds, billions of sensors, ripping apart your engine harness, etc.

You're looking at a big BIG tear up to do all that. Have you heard of a company called Gravana? They're currently developing a twin charger setup - adding a turbo IN ADDITION to the supercharger. That way you still get the low-end pull of the supercharger, the top-end of the turbo, and you save yourself from basically ripping the car apart.

Not to mention it'll probably end up being cheaper in the long run - one kit, versus buying new intake & exhaust manifolds, billions of sensors, ripping apart your engine harness, etc.
DEFINITELY agreed!!!

Turbonetics has a kit in the works only problem being theres nothing you can piggybakc into the high speed harness so there developing a MAP system to eliminate the MAF.

if you would turbo the SS you might have to rebuild the engine and bring down the compression becuase the engine may not beable to take high PSI from a turbo but with the twin charger the boost is not that high.

if you would turbo the SS you might have to rebuild the engine and bring down the compression becuase the engine may not beable to take high PSI from a turbo but with the twin charger the boost is not that high.

boost is boost. Having said that, a supercharger gets you less net power than a turbo at the same boost levels because a lot of power is siphoned off to drive the SC itself, the effect gets worse the faster it spins. There is undoubtably a fair amount of safety factor built in from GM. A turbo will simply add torque higher up the RPM range than the blower.

Low down, the blower will generate lots of torque, as it dies off in the upper band, a turbo will add more boost as the engine starts to run out of breath (depending, of course, on the duration of the camshaft and the breathing ability of the heads). Essentially extending the torque curve (not increasing the value of it above the current maximum number, or at least not much <remember GM's safety factor>) and as a side effect, higher horsepower.

I was torn between an SRT-4 and the Cobalt SS, this kit will push me over to the GM side.

Yes i know but the SS has a very high compression ratio and most of us are very surrised and with a high boost turbo you may end up blowing the engine that is all i am not saying that it is not safe but i would be very carfull what is done to the SS as far as adding more boost that is why i would just twin charge it. :)

The turbo's higher boost would not occur until the head/cams is not filling the cylinder effectively at higher RPM, the added boost would help with the cylinder filling, but would not increase cylinder pressure beyond (or much beyond) the current peak torque figure, thus the cylinder pressure would not be any higher, so no danger to the motor.

LT1's with much higher compression can take 6lbs of boost with no trouble and close to double that with intercooling.

But to each his own. I have decided to pick up an '06 at the end of the Summer, you go your route, I will go mine and we will see what happens.

Have a good one!

Yeah i know but i would feal much safer if it was built better but like you said each to there own. And let bigons be bigons. And if you are going that route keep us up dated on the build up and definaly let us know how it works out for ya.
And you have a good one. :)

we have a piggy back system working right now on Brookes SS.






Turbonetics has a kit in the works only problem being theres nothing you can piggybakc into the high speed harness so there developing a MAP system to eliminate the MAF.

Awsome how is it working on the SS?

I think before all of you guys look too deeply into this twin charging idea, you should look at how far the car can go with the blower in place. I cant imagine the twin charging kit costing any less than $2k, which is a pretty sizeable sum of money to have at your dispense for a factory forced induction motor. I almost think that maybe whoever introduced this concept to you guys did so knowing it sounds like a real good idea and he knew he can make alot of money from it.
Think about it this way. You guys are lucky enough to have some sort of power adder in place, so utilize it to its potential. Port the blower, port the manifold it mounts to if possible, upgrade the IC system where you can, port the head, spring for some more aggressive cams if available, and do the usual bolt ons. Obviously youre gonna need to look into whatever tuning system is/will be available for your cars to make the most out of your combinations, and if youre lucky HP Tuners will make a version available to you guys, as well as some sort of AFC which I would hope is available now or very very soon. After all that, if youre still not happy, then pursue some sort of turbo setup. But for the time being, work with what you got and prove that it does work. The GTP crowd has been doing it for a few years now with great success.

Or maybe I'm just crazy??

Correct me if Im wrong but their are SEVERAl well selling turbo conversions for the GTP as well are there not! That produce AMAZING amounts of power?!!?!

There is only one that I personally know of, and thats the CarTuning turbo kit. It performs well, but its also quite pricey. Pricey enough to where for the average enthusiast, less money would be better spent on a good IC setup and a ported lower intake and supercharger. You only see the truely hardcore guys going with the turbo setup, or the guys that have the money to spend on it and want to be a bit different. But in the case of you Cobalt guys, the car hasnt even been around long enough to need to be different or realize any kind of real potential with the current motor.

Yeah I thought I seen one, in a GM mag once, looked pretty sweet. Never had the chance to see one in person though...yet. What do ya think bout that new GXP comin out?!?!? That thing is HOT!! They said the alum. block barely weighs any more than the old SC/v6!!!! Comparable weight, boost in power, REALLY FAT front wheels, etc etc.. I like!!

port the blower, and work on increasing airflow everywhere else. all said and done a turbo setup on top of the blower with a nice fmic and alky system ull make mad power.

Let me get this straight u bought an ss Cobalt instead of an SRT Neon for no reason. I f you buy a Cobalt stick to the supercharger if you want turbo trade it in for an SrT or build a Honda beater on the side moron.

neons are garbage :)

^^^This cat trips me out!

The GTP engine has like 9:1 compression ratio, i am sure the cobalt is probably the same way. Most of the GTP owners stick with the supercharger, or upgrade to a better one. Alot of Grand prix GT owners go to the turbo set up because is less work involved. These upgrades are not cheap. I used to have a GTP, and i would of had to spend a great deal of money to make my GTP run high to low 13.

^^^ You sir are an idiot then. First of all, the L67 has 8.5:1 compression. Second of all, it would take you maybe $350-$400 to reach a 13 second 1/4 mile timeslip. Some kind of FWI, 3.4" pulley, 180* t-stat, AL104 plugs and some kind of downpipe. That's it. Those mods will net you a 13 second pass if you have decent tread on your tires. Add another $150 or so for a used DHP and you could drop another 1/10th or 2.

For the turbo kits on the GTP's, there's a couple: CarTuning, based out of Ontario, Canada. Stattama also has a kit out, and Nu-Line performance has a kit out as well. All are around the same price of $3000, +/- a few hundred. They'll put down anywhere from 350-400 hp at the wheels on about 10-11 psi.

For that kinda money, though, on the stock M90 blower, you could add a gen 2 ZZP full size IC, TOG headers, X-P cam, alky kit and a 2.7" pulley and be as fast for less. Throw in some blower porting, LIM porting and a nicely ported TB along with 3" downpipe and your golden, that's a low low 12 or high 11 second pass.

3000 for a turbo kit, PSSHH, haha. I'm looking at 7g's or more on the LS1 cars. hahaha. a new kit did come out that is alot cheaper that seems to be doing great though!

Anyways, it'd be cool to see the process of switching to a turbo. there obviously is a limit of hp. our questions should be looking into if it's the BLOWER that will limit the amount of power we could make or is it the engine. does the engine require a head stud or the head require an o-ringing setup. will we have problems with blown head gaskets? how is the oiling system in the cars? is it strong enough to feed a turbo? how is the bottom end? are the rod bolts weak(like they were in the early LS1 years)?

stock ls1/ls6 intake has seen 20+psi last time i remember and has lasted. are we looking to a custom sheetmetal intake when looking at going turbo on the Cobalt SS, cause that will boost $ in no time.

i look into reliability factors right along with the performance factors. that way i can invest my money in the right areas before buying something not needed

^^^ You sir are an idiot then.

thing of beauty there.

There is a lot you can do before ditching the supercharger and going turbo. But all of that was well pointed out.

Intercooler, Alc Injection, Exhaust, Cams, Plugs, ECU adjustements for timing, and fuel, Porting, and Pulleys. Dont just get rid of something becuase stock its not as good as something else. Make what GM made better.

2.0L ECOTEC Supercharged Engine
The all-aluminum dual overhead cam, 2.0L ECOTEC Supercharged four-cylinder engine is built off the strengths of the original, naturally aspirated 2.2L ECOTEC engine.
The 2.0L Supercharged engine has a four-valve cylinder head, maintenance-free chain-driven camshafts, counter-rotating balance shafts and an integrated oil cooler.
The Eaton M62 supercharger spins at a low rpm, which improves durability and creates less noise while allowing for plenty of top-end power. Power delivery of the supercharged engine is instantaneous. Maximum boost of the supercharger is 12 psi.
Also included on this engine:
A direct-mount oil cooler.
Oil jets for piston cooling.
Heavy-duty pistons.
Strong connecting rods.
Forged-steel crankshaft.
Large oil pump.
Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved durability.
A high-strength aluminum cylinder head.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Straight from the Chevy website. This motor can take tons of boost, I forget where, but GM has gotten 600HP out of a stock ecotec, so its got tons of potential. The only weakness is the connecting rods. Mods are cheap too,....get a smaller pulley, chip, new intake and exhaust and you'll be flying. And if you want to turbo it, why bother getting an SS, just get a sport coupe with the 2.2L and turbo that. They have tons of mods for them.

It already has the stronger connecting rods. A friend and myself discovered most of the part#s for the engine are right out of the GM perfomormance catalog. The weakest part is the clutch at 350 max hp. The rods are well into the 500+ range.

It already has the stronger connecting rods. A friend and myself discovered most of the part#s for the engine are right out of the GM perfomormance catalog. The weakest part is the clutch at 350 max hp. The rods are well into the 500+ range.

Yeah, thats what i was saying,...the weakest part are the connecting rods....@500+ :eek:

Hmmm..but doesn't the "high" compression ratio limit it's potential? 9.6 is quite a bit for a car with a factory blower. I think it would be hard to shove 20 psi into that.

aluminum construction = better disapation(sp? haha)

it's what let's me run 11.5:1 on 93 octane in the LS1 motor. well that and a bunch of other little things. i know there was a guy running 10psi through his LS1 that had 11:1. Timing was WAAAAAAAY down. Just one of those afterthoughts he did I guess(throwing the blower on after the built motor)

was it 600 flywheel hp or 600 WHEEL horsepower?

HD pistons tell me nothing, as does "strong" connecting rods, but atleast we got through that meaning "needs" upgrade

what is the piston material? is it a true forged piston or is it just a thicker designed cast piston?

can the M90 s/c from a GTP be tossed on replacing the M67 setup? almost like going from a Eaton to a Kenne Bell on an '03-'04 Cobra. Something a bit bigger?

Chris

From the pictures I've seen of the M62 and its outlet they look very similiar to the M90, but the case on the M90 is longer, so I think you would have a problem with pulley alignment. But as I have said over and over and over again on this one forum, port and polish the blower real well and port the lower intake manifold if possible, and it should become alot more efficient at stock boost and capable of making more boost more efficiently.

From the pictures I've seen of the M62 and its outlet they look very similiar to the M90, but the case on the M90 is longer, so I think you would have a problem with pulley alignment. But as I have said over and over and over again on this one forum, port and polish the blower real well and port the lower intake manifold if possible, and it should become alot more efficient at stock boost and capable of making more boost more efficiently.

yep, for those that don't want a challenge :)

i would want a challenge, plus if i could port the blower and lower intake of the large s/c, it would be that much better :) and i can get those friggen cheap as hell around here. that's all "I" was wanting to know about.

Chris