anyone done a pulley swap yet? i was thinking about ordering the 3.25" any ideas as to what kind of gains i could get out of it?

Have you done intake and exhaust work yet? If not do those first, then do a pulley to see maximum gains and be safe as well. Do atleast a 2.5" catback and a cold air induction kit, whether it be home made or an aftermarket unit, and then I would recommend colder spark plugs, although Im not exactly sure what plugs you would have to buy. After you have those three done go for the pulley, and you should probably see a 30-40whp gain, if not more. I dont know if anyone is really sure yet about the gains with any mods, so be the first to find out!

Have you done intake and exhaust work yet? If not do those first, then do a pulley to see maximum gains and be safe as well. Do atleast a 2.5" catback and a cold air induction kit, whether it be home made or an aftermarket unit, and then I would recommend colder spark plugs, although Im not exactly sure what plugs you would have to buy. After you have those three done go for the pulley, and you should probably see a 30-40whp gain, if not more. I dont know if anyone is really sure yet about the gains with any mods, so be the first to find out!

yeah i was kind of wondering if i should go for an intake first or not. I guess ill go ahead and do that to begin with. thanks man.

Definately do the exhaust and cold air intake before doing pulleys. They will void your warranty if that even matters. I forgot the actual numbers of gaisn from pulleys but if you go to the South Florida sponsor under the forums on their site is
http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/ there you can see what type of numbers to expect from the pulleys. but remember you have to run the car with 93 octane gasoline for the optimal performance and numbers that they claim.

unfortunately there arent any intakes available yet.. all i can get is the k&n filter. hell i havent even seen any exhaust system offered yet either. pulley is only option. but im going to wait to hear from others who have done it.

If you are going to do an intake be sure to do one that is completely sealed off from hot engine air. A guy on one of the forums I visit did a few pulls on a Mustang dyno with a hot engine air sucking cone filter intake and the factory air box. He actually lost power using an open cone filter vs the stock air box. I'm running with the stock air box minus the silencers, a drop in K & N filter and a 2" hose running from the front of my GT up to the fenderwell hole for cold air. That and a 2 1/2" catback single flow through exhaust and my modified GT loves it.

Here's the post.

http://ptenthusiasts.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50487

The pic to the right of his GT is what happens when you warm up the tires at the track with trac control on. :D

If you are going to do an intake be sure to do one that is completely sealed off from hot engine air. A guy on one of the forums I visit did a few pulls on a Mustang dyno with a hot engine air sucking cone filter intake and the factory air box. He actually lost power using an open cone filter vs the stock air box. I'm running with the stock air box minus the silencers, a drop in K & N filter and a 2" hose running from the front of my GT up to the fenderwell hole for cold air. That and a 2 1/2" catback single flow through exhaust and my modified GT loves it.

Here's the post.

http://ptenthusiasts.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50487

The pic to the right of his GT is what happens when you warm up the tires at the track with trac control on. :D

yeah all i ordered was the drop in K&N and it comes pre-cut to fit the airbox, so i wont have to cut the airbox or anything.

Mean green, are the GT Cruisers slower than the SRT's due to any possible weight, gearing, wind drag, etc. disadvantages??

Mean green, are the GT Cruisers slower than the SRT's due to any possible weight, gearing, wind drag, etc. disadvantages??

They do weigh more (over 3200 lbs) and have a different tranny (don't know the gearing diffs but the SRT 4 is probably better) and wind drag is a lot on the GT. With the mods I have I'm in the low 14's. My buddy who is more modded out performance wise than I am did a 13.82. One guy with a stock GT and a 75 shot of nos did a 12.95 in the 1/4.

If you can, get a 180* t-stat. It will help you alot on keeping the KR down.

If you can, get a 180* t-stat. It will help you alot on keeping the KR down.

Thanks, I got one. SRT 4 forums are a great place for info. A lot of the GT gearheads go there.

What would you say GT vs. SS?? Driver's race?

What would you say GT vs. SS?? Driver's race?

I haven't driven a SS yet so I can only guess. It's been a year and a half since mine was stock and I can barely remember what it was like. GT has higher hp/torque but is heavier. SS has lower hp/torque but is lighter. I would guess stock against stock would be best driver. I do know a stock GT made the mistake of running against me on the freeway a few weeks ago. Wasn't even close. After I slowed down he did a fly by making my wife laugh. Oh well, I hijacked this thread enough. Sorry.

Finally someone has installed a smaller pulley on their LSJ. http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2977

Just be careful when trying to increase the boost on these roots blower cars. Take it from GTP 8 U and myself since we have experienced the pros and cons of modding GM blown cars. A 180 T-stat is a good thing and one range colder plugs with the intake and exhaust mods. But nobody will know what size pulley is safe without scanning. You want 0 KNOCK! If you are having the PCM pull timing on you on a warm day with a 3.25" pulley, you are looking for trouble. Chipping pistons is just one of the issues you will experience.

Just be careful when trying to increase the boost on these roots blower cars. Take it from GTP 8 U and myself since we have experienced the pros and cons of modding GM blown cars. A 180 T-stat is a good thing and one range colder plugs with the intake and exhaust mods. But nobody will know what size pulley is safe without scanning. You want 0 KNOCK! If you are having the PCM pull timing on you on a warm day with a 3.25" pulley, you are looking for trouble. Chipping pistons is just one of the issues you will experience.Agreed, but don't forget, unlike the L67, the LSJ is equipped with a Laminova air-to-water charge air heat exchanger system, integral to the intake manifold- that includes a high capacity electric circulation pump, 2 quarts of closed system coolant, and a separate intercooler in front of the radiator. While I certainly don’t dispute there needs to be concern for potential engine damage when someone "pullies-down" without adequate preparation. (A:F and timing) this system appears to have more than adequate thermal capacity to handle additional boost up to the 2 liter's mechanical limits and dramatically extends the "event horizon" of detonation induced engine damage.

Regards
WopOnTour

I know about the IC that you guys have, but it doesn't appear to be as effective as some of the aftermarket stuff out there for the L67. I have been hearing that the purpouse of your IC is to allow for the car to use regular octane. Maybe you guys can overspeed the SC as long as you use 92-94 octane? My point is that you never know without scanning these things.

Good info, Wop. I hope to help out a local Cobalt SS achieve his modding needs, but not without doing it right regardless of the small IC in place already. No KR is the only way to do it right :) .

I know about the IC that you guys have, but it doesn't appear to be as effective as some of the aftermarket stuff out there for the L67. I have been hearing that the purpouse of your IC is to allow for the car to use regular octane. Maybe you guys can overspeed the SC as long as you use 92-94 octane? My point is that you never know without scanning these things.

Good info, Wop. I hope to help out a local Cobalt SS achieve his modding needs, but not without doing it right regardless of the small IC in place already. No KR is the only way to do it right :) .
If it was to allow us to use regular than it failed, the car is a premium only car.

If it was to allow us to use regular than it failed, the car is a premium only car.

That kind of scares me then. We (L67's) are also required to use premium since we are not IC'd even when stock. Bad gas has been the cause of a few failures on modded L67 cars. I caution the use of smaller pulleys without this basic list of supporting mods:

1. cooler plugs
2. cooler T-stat (180 or 160)
3. free flowing intake (cold air induction/fender well induction)
4. better flowing exhaust
5. tuning
6. SCAN TOOL!


Your cars are very impressive and great looking to boot. For those of you that haven't had a SC'd car before, do things carefully so you don't end up driving a rental car while you wait for the SS to get repaired ;)

I am on this forum because I need to learn more about your SS and the LSJ before we start modding them up this way.

That kind of scares me then. We (L67's) are also required to use premium since we are not IC'd even when stock. Bad gas has been the cause of a few failures on modded L67 cars. I caution the use of smaller pulleys without this basic list of supporting mods:

1. cooler plugs
2. cooler T-stat (180 or 160)
3. free flowing intake (cold air induction/fender well induction)
4. better flowing exhaust
5. tuning
6. SCAN TOOL!


Your cars are very impressive and great looking to boot. For those of you that haven't had a SC'd car before, do things carefully so you don't end up driving a rental car while you wait for the SS to get repaired ;)

I am on this forum because I need to learn more about your SS and the LSJ before we start modding them up this way.
The compression ratio is kinda high on these cars for a boosted engine so that is probably a good reason why premium is still needed. I am using the stock thermostat and plugs as of right now and on the wideband at WOT it stays fairly steady at 11.9 A/F and the autotap is showing 0* of knock.

The compression ratio is kinda high on these cars for a boosted engine so that is probably a good reason why premium is still needed. I am using the stock thermostat and plugs as of right now and on the wideband at WOT it stays fairly steady at 11.9 A/F and the autotap is showing 0* of knock.

Outstanding :) !

I would love to talk to you as much as possible about the LSJ and the mods you have. When we started modding this local SS, I need all the advice I can get.

Thank you,

Joe

Outstanding :) !

I would love to talk to you as much as possible about the LSJ and the mods you have. When we started modding this local SS, I need all the advice I can get.

Thank you,

Joe
I am more than willing to tell what I know as I know it. I am learning most of it as we progress. Thursday is W/A injection and a greddy E-manage.

You guys are hilarious on here, and the supposed "experts" are not even right in their assumptions. I cannot say more, but I will say that they are not exactly correct.

And you're so perfect because????? Whos an expert anyways? I havent seen anyone try to proclaim themselves as an expert on these cars, seeing as how theyve been out for a whopping what, 3 months? And what exactly is keeping you from saying more?

P.S.- I'm going to assume youre talking about Elk County GS, me, and maybe a few others when you say "experts" because we're one of the few that are actually trying to help some of the lesser experienced guys.

And you're so perfect because????? Whos an expert anyways? I havent seen anyone try to proclaim themselves as an expert on these cars, seeing as how theyve been out for a whopping what, 3 months? And what exactly is keeping you from saying more?

P.S.- I'm going to assume youre talking about Elk County GS, me, and maybe a few others when you say "experts" because we're one of the few that are actually trying to help some of the lesser experienced guys.
He is a Gm engineer, works on the Northstar engines if memory serves me correctly. He and a group of other engineers have a redline that they Auto X. I am not entirely sure about his comment either. It does seem a bit unnecessary. I hope he will come in and explain and possibly set us straight..........

You guys are hilarious on here, and the supposed "experts" are not even right in their assumptions. I cannot say more, but I will say that they are not exactly correct.

Never called myself an "expert" on a Cobalt SS if your comments are directed at me. Just know what works and doesn't work on an L67 and L36. Just trying to learn like everyone else on the LSJ.

In a serious tone, if a bunch of young Cobalt SS owners are going to start modding the car they love, you would do them all a service in pointing out how wrong the assumptions are and what assumptions are the bad points. I am not the kind of person that will see this as a flame war. If you are correct, I will learn from it. I don't mind admitting when I am wrong in an assumption. That's why I said that "YOU WON'T KNOW UNLESS YOU SCAN".

Never called myself an "expert" on a Cobalt SS if your comments are directed at me. Just know what works and doesn't work on an L67 and L36. Just trying to learn like everyone else on the LSJ.

In a serious tone, if a bunch of young Cobalt SS owners are going to start modding the car they love, you would do them all a service in pointing out how wrong the assumptions are and what assumptions are the bad points. I am not the kind of person that will see this as a flame war. If you are correct, I will learn from it. I don't mind admitting when I am wrong in an assumption. That's why I said that "YOU WON'T KNOW UNLESS YOU SCAN".


Well put yourself in my shoes. I know what will work for an LSJ, but by saying so I would be handing out info. that I really should not. Second, how I could I reasonably tell people how to get more horsepower which would surely void their warranty? I'm between a rock and a hard place.

I will add this tidbit. The PCM cal will adjust for more air and you would really have to do something crazy to run lean and blow it up. The PCM will not allow an excessively lean condition and it would stick the engine in limp-mode. It will allow it to run rich, but at that you will foul plugs quickly and with a stock cal this is nearly impossible. Bottom line, I'm not advocating doing anything.

You are more than welcome to continue checking the A/F on a Tech 2, and if that makes you feel more comfortable then go for it. I'm just saying that the PCM will not let you blow it up unless you do something crazy. There are layers upon layers of protection within the newer engine cals. Also, you do not need a huge exhaust or some crazy intake either. Both systems flow quite well. There are many more modifications out there that would really build power and it's only a matter of time until you guys figure it out.

Sorry to sound like a jerk...I didn't mean to but it came off that way.

Hell I would think GM would love to have kids blow up their SS's with aftermarket parts that void warranty because then they wouldnt have to fix shit for free!!! So hell, throw out some more info;)

Good to know about the PCM and intake/exhaust. Guess doing the plugs and thermostat dont matter much, which is a good thing since that saves a bit of money right there. Looks like right now the only to really do is a pulley and some port work on the S/C.

I know about the IC that you guys have, but it doesn't appear to be as effective as some of the aftermarket stuff out there for the L67. What are you baseing this assumption on? Got numbers? Specifically ,what aftermarket aftercoolers have you used for the L67?

I have been hearing that the purpouse of your IC is to allow for the car to use regular octane. Hearing WHERE and FROM WHOM? I mean what sources are you using for all of this mis-information??The fuel cap and owners manual state Premium Fuel Recommended so...

I hope to help out a local Cobalt SS achieve his modding needs, but not without doing it right regardless of the small IC in place already. No KR is the only way to do it right :) . Fuel is one thing, timing is another. Fuel you can have some limited control over, timing not so much. So YES if your scan tool is displaying Knock counts or Knock Retard levels (I use a TECH2 - what do YOU use??) that will need to be adressed (less boost,reduced CR, increased charge air cooling effectiveness, water/alc injection etc etc) But you will FIRST need to insure you are getting adequate A:F and (in general) a scan tool cannot give you this unless the factory equipment included a wide-band O2- such as the LH2 Northstar or the L81 V6s, but which which the LSJ Ecotec DOES NOT have.
WopOnTour

But you will FIRST need to insure you are getting adequate A:F and (in general) a scan tool cannot give you this unless the factory equipment included a wide-band O2- such as the LH2 Northstar or the L81 V6s, but which which the LSJ Ecotec DOES NOT have.
WopOnTour
Ppl can at least use a TECH 2 or similar to check fuel trims tho. If nothing's pegged, that at least gives you an idea that you're within the ECM's safe range. It's by no means scientific, and certainly not a replacement for a WBO2 tune. But at least gives a start point.

What are you baseing this assumption on? Got numbers? Specifically ,what aftermarket aftercoolers have you used for the L67?
This was said in a phone conversation by a couple of aftermarket sources that carry some of the SFPH's stuff. I was not sure if it was true or not, and now that you state premium fuel, it cannot be true. Good point. The aftermarket IC's we have used are the MCAD (good friend of ours) and ZZP's (also good guy to deal with).

Hearing WHERE and FROM WHOM? I mean what sources are you using for all of this mis-information??The fuel cap and owners manual state Premium Fuel Recommended so...

It has to be mis-information. I asked a question, and now I am learning the truth behind this engine.

Fuel is one thing, timing is another. Fuel you can have some limited control over, timing not so much. So YES if your scan tool is displaying Knock counts or Knock Retard levels (I use a TECH2 - what do YOU use??) that will need to be adressed (less boost,reduced CR, increased charge air cooling effectiveness, water/alc injection etc etc) But you will FIRST need to insure you are getting adequate A:F and (in general) a scan tool cannot give you this unless the factory equipment included a wide-band O2- such as the LH2 Northstar or the L81 V6s, but which which the LSJ Ecotec DOES NOT have.
WopOnTour

We use the DHP PowrTuner and the Alex Peper OBD-2 scanner. They won't give KR for the LSJ but they do for the L36 (improperly labeled as an L37, but still works fine) and L67, so I would need other alternatives for the SS. The PowrTuner actually can control just about any tuning needs for my two cars. We have found that the stock O2's can be off by .030 with no problems, so most die-hard tuners are going with wide band replacements. Happy knobs are sometimes used to control the timing by up to 6 degrees. We also have a few other options like: http://www.zzperformance.com/products1.php?id=186&PHPSESSID=95ea12cbc414b28cea37e419337c87fd

Thanks for the info again, Wop.

Well put yourself in my shoes. I know what will work for an LSJ, but by saying so I would be handing out info. that I really should not. Second, how I could I reasonably tell people how to get more horsepower which would surely void their warranty? I'm between a rock and a hard place.

We understand, and as long as these guys and gals know that messing with a warrantied car could mean trouble... I'd personally wait for the warranty to be over unless it was a GM product that didn't void a thing (like the MOPAR stuff for the SRT-4).

I will add this tidbit. The PCM cal will adjust for more air and you would really have to do something crazy to run lean and blow it up. The PCM will not allow an excessively lean condition and it would stick the engine in limp-mode. It will allow it to run rich, but at that you will foul plugs quickly and with a stock cal this is nearly impossible. Bottom line, I'm not advocating doing anything.

Thanks! This is a better deal than our OBD-2 programs for the L67. We can, and do, take out pistons every now and then... even with careful planning.

You are more than welcome to continue checking the A/F on a Tech 2, and if that makes you feel more comfortable then go for it. I'm just saying that the PCM will not let you blow it up unless you do something crazy. There are layers upon layers of protection within the newer engine cals. Also, you do not need a huge exhaust or some crazy intake either. Both systems flow quite well. There are many more modifications out there that would really build power and it's only a matter of time until you guys figure it out.

Sorry to sound like a jerk...I didn't mean to but it came off that way.

Didn't take you as a jerk as you can read from my reply. I have dealings with GM, Ford, and DaimlerChrysler engineering and maintenance and saw your post as a warning that I wasn't thinking correctly for the purpose of handling the LSJ platform. What works and what has to be considered on my W-bodies doesn't necessarily all apply to this new and exciting product!

Thanks for the advice.

Ppl can at least use a TECH 2 or similar to check fuel trims tho. If nothing's pegged, that at least gives you an idea that you're within the ECM's safe range. It's by no means scientific, and certainly not a replacement for a WBO2 tune. But at least gives a start point.Hey Dan
You are correct of course to some extent BUT
The problem is fuel trims only show you % offset from stoich in with each cell (site) at "steady road loads". During aceleration and at WOT you are running on a totally different "Power Enrichment" tables and NOT in Closed Loop. So the trims wont tell you too much about what is happening there. So if you intend to tread into "unkown" boost levels using anything but a WB02 - your engine WILL be at risk. A lot of people will just go to great lengths to insure they a going to be RICH (larger/additional injectors, increased fuel pressure etc) but many go overboard and cannot dial it back to ideal A:Fs for maximum HP. Of course most of the "packaged" solutions, such as the PSI-FI and Gavana kits on the horizon will have (hopefully) been wide band tuned by the developers.

Someone please enlighten me:

How does a different thermostat effect the car?

And KR is?

A different thermostat allows the coolant to circulate through the system at a lower temperature than before. It simply pop opens and allows it to pass through once it reaches a specified heat range.(ie 160 180 and so on)
So is TECH 2 completely different from OBD II and the likes? And the most important question, is it any harder for people to tune it? I'm guessing the Grand Am Cobalt teams know because they had to have reprogrammed for their smaller pulley , deleted cats , and what not.

Oh and KR is knock retard, your ECU pulls timing when it senses detonation.

I get it now. Thanks dude. I was having a hard time figuring that out.

How does the ecu react to detonation? Limp mode?

If it gets bad enough for some reason it would probably go into limp mode, not sure though. Otherwise, it just pulls a predetermined amount of timing until the KR stops.

I get it now. Thanks dude. I was having a hard time figuring that out.

How does the ecu react to detonation? Limp mode?
limp mode, and its like
ULTRA limp mode really. In messing with my car I now keep a 8 mm in the trunk to reset the ECU because if it gets pissed it basically won't let you move.

A different thermostat allows the coolant to circulate through the system at a lower temperature than before. It simply pop opens and allows it to pass through once it reaches a specified heat range.(ie 160 180 and so on)
So is TECH 2 completely different from OBD II and the likes? And the most important question, is it any harder for people to tune it? I'm guessing the Grand Am Cobalt teams know because they had to have reprogrammed for their smaller pulley , deleted cats , and what not.

Oh and KR is knock retard, your ECU pulls timing when it senses detonation.
Tech 2 is just the GM program he uses to scan the car, the car uses CAN instead of OBD2.

Ah, thanks! :)

Tech 2 is just the GM program he uses to scan the car, the car uses CAN instead of OBD2.Almost CH
TECH2 = GM specific handheld scan tool capable of communicating across multiple platforms and protocols (used by all GM dealers)

CAN= Controller Area Network ( a communications protocol used by many newer cars, including the Cobalt) Actually the Cobalt PCM however uses the older Class 2 (J1850) protocol for the engine and fuel injection parameters and such.

OBD2= EPA legislated performance of the vehicle self-diagnostic system. ALL CARS to be sold into the North American market must comply with OBDII, whether they are CAN, Class 2, Keyword, etc etc they still MUST be OBDII compliant with respect to how DTCs PASS/FAIL and illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Light (Check Engine)

HTH
WOT

Thank god my car doesnt have any of that crap, around here they use it against you when going through state inspection. :D They cant tell what I have, as long as it goes through emissions thats all that matters.

Almost CH
TECH2 = GM specific handheld scan tool capable of communicating across multiple platforms and protocols (used by all GM dealers)

CAN= Controller Area Network ( a communications protocol used by many newer cars, including the Cobalt) Actually the Cobalt PCM however uses the older Class 2 (J1850) protocol for the engine and fuel injection parameters and such.

OBD2= EPA legislated performance of the vehicle self-diagnostic system. ALL CARS to be sold into the North American market must comply with OBDII, whether they are CAN, Class 2, Keyword, etc etc they still MUST be OBDII compliant with respect to how DTCs PASS/FAIL and illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Light (Check Engine)

HTH
WOT
Wow, you really know your stuff. http://www.ls2.com/forums/images/smilies/worship.gif