has any cobalt ss owners ever race a turbo dsm b4?

I hope I dont sound stupid, but what is a turbo dsm? I know quite a bit about cars but that abreviation is new to me.

Turbo DSM stands for the:

Mitsubishi Eclipse
Eagle Talon
Plymouth Laser

All of the ones that had the 4G63T (engine code) inside the engine bay. All came turbocharged and some were AWD. The different versions breakdown like so...

Mitsu: GS-T (FWD) and GSX (AWD)
Eagle: TSi (FWD) and TSiAWD (AWD)
Plymouth: this one is different than others. Usually designated with the "Laser RS" on the back but to find out if it is AWD you have to duck your head under the rear and look for the "Pumpkin". It is a rear differential.

Now, they are called DSM's because they were part of a joint venture called "Dimond Star Motors" and the stamps inside the enginebay have the abbreviation DSM to distiguish them.


The biggest thing is that people want to decide what is and is not a DSM. Since they were all built in Normal, Illinois had had the stamp they automatically think it is. But that research I will leave up to you, lol.

If you want to see a bunch of these cars look here: dsmtuners.com
Hell, use the search and you will see this under my old screen name.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/data/502/7998DSC00335.JPG
http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/data/502/7998DSC00331.JPG

Thanks for the info! Now was the starion/conquest apart of this genre?

Different setup....I would put it in its own section. They were RWD and have a different 2.6L engine (g54b). Most swap it to the 4G63T and use the same bolt-ons as the rest of the DSM community. They are awesome cars.

My freind had a DSM it was quick but it had a few flaws. But if tuned they would be very hard to bet car's.

I hope I dont sound stupid, but what is a turbo dsm? I know quite a bit about cars but that abreviation is new to me.

The Evo is a Turbo DSM 4G63! They are pretty quick! More info on www.dsm.org
www.hahnracecraft.com

An AWD DSM is an 11 sec car with turbo upgrade and fuel and decent driver. A friend in LA hit 11.00 with his 1G/50 trim. That was at 24 psi and altitude. Amazing cars for the price!

If you could put wheels and a motor on a garbage can, you would basically have a DSM. Actually, the garbage can might be better than the DSM. Smelly maybe, but definetely better.

Actually most of the DSM cars were not turbo charged. They sold a lot of the base models.

If you could put wheels and a motor on a garbage can, you would basically have a DSM. Actually, the garbage can might be better than the DSM. Smelly maybe, but definetely better.
bad experience I take it?

If you could put wheels and a motor on a garbage can, you would basically have a DSM. Actually, the garbage can might be better than the DSM. Smelly maybe, but definetely better.

You are a dork!! Off of what knowledge would you base this opinion off of? As far as I can see, many of these cars are on the road still. Even with heavy modification. :confused:

owned a high 11sec DSM for damn near 3 years (90 awd tsi) never had any problems with mines at all and bought it off a guy who was gonna junk it because the turbo was gone and the dp had a hole....

i guess its the way you take care of em... i sold the car a year ago and its still running.

owned a high 11sec DSM for damn near 3 years (90 awd tsi) never had any problems with mines at all and bought it off a guy who was gonna junk it because the turbo was gone and the dp had a hole....

i guess its the way you take care of em... i sold the car a year ago and its still running.

It seems many GTP owners are trolls in life!!

Some of those cars while stock, and kinda old looking, WILL smoke you, in whatever you're driving. The 4G63 is one of the most stout engines ever built, and the one that some people are even comparing the LSJ motor to. The Lanver Evo's have been using this same engine over in Japan for something like 12-13 years, and putting outragous WHP numbers for almost as long. There have only been slight changes in this motor, and that is the reason that there are so many DSM's still running around and being modified. Look at how many 600+WHP Evo's you're heard of, and just think, that they're doing it on a 13 year old engine design. The 4G63 is capable of handling something like 400WHP on most if not all stock internals. There aren't many engines that have been able to claim that. I used to own a 99 Eclipse GS-t, and was putting out 270WHP at 8lbs of boost. A slightly moddified one would be a good race against a stock LSJ. If you click here (http://photobucket.com/albums/v355/cheeta2425/Eclipse/?action=logout) you can see some pics of my old Eclipse.

bad experience I take it?
If you have ever owned a DSM you basically had a bad experience. Even DSM owners will tell you they are unreliable. They are the japanese version of fox body mustangs. There cheap and easy to make fast with very little money.

The Evo is a Turbo DSM 4G63! They are pretty quick! More info on www.dsm.org
www.hahnracecraft.com

An AWD DSM is an 11 sec car with turbo upgrade and fuel and decent driver. A friend in LA hit 11.00 with his 1G/50 trim. That was at 24 psi and altitude. Amazing cars for the price!

The Evo may be a 4g63, but it is NOT a DSM. There was no joint effort with Chrysler in the current one, but there will be on the next generation.

The Evo may be a 4g63, but it is NOT a DSM. There was no joint effort with Chrysler in the current one, but there will be on the next generation.


nope the 9 will be all mistu.... so will the 10 when it comes out. even though they are going bankrupt.

I used to own a 99 Eclipse GS-t, and was putting out 270WHP at 8lbs of boost.
You were running 3-4 pounds under the stock boost levels and making 80 more whp??? Hmmm........

nope the 9 will be all mistu.... so will the 10 when it comes out. even though they are going bankrupt.

Actually, the 2007 replacement for the SRT-4 and the 2007 EvoX are on the same chassis.

Actually, the 2007 replacement for the SRT-4 and the 2007 EvoX are on the same chassis.

and thats if they even got through with the X.... from the way its looking it might not :(

The lil add in article inside the new Eclipse GT article in the new MT says that Mitsu WILL survive. It says that (pretty much) the Japanese people wont LET it die. Not sure how they plan to pull it off but who cares long as they stick around. They are in a similar situation as GM basically. Not sure which is worse off, but I think both companies will survive. BTW that new Eclipse is BAD!!!!! I would be willin to bet it is a high 13 sec car in stock form, the mag editors pulled a 14.2, and we all know what exceptionally professional drivers mag editors are! :rolleyes: But it runs for a pricey $28,xxx!!! :eek: Holy SHAT thats almost an EVO!!!!

yea, but it weighs 3500lbs!! No thanks, I'll mod my SS.

The lil add in article inside the new Eclipse GT article in the new MT says that Mitsu WILL survive. It says that (pretty much) the Japanese people wont LET it die. Not sure how they plan to pull it off but who cares long as they stick around. They are in a similar situation as GM basically. Not sure which is worse off, but I think both companies will survive. BTW that new Eclipse is BAD!!!!! I would be willin to bet it is a high 13 sec car in stock form, the mag editors pulled a 14.2, and we all know what exceptionally professional drivers mag editors are! :rolleyes: But it runs for a pricey $28,xxx!!! :eek: Holy SHAT thats almost an EVO!!!!
I seen one in real life today. Its an improvement over the 3rd gen for sure but I still think the 2nd gen looks the best. The 4th gen looks much more like a 2nd gen now though.

I'm not a big fan of the new Eclipse. I saw like 4 at the local dealer and there was about a foot between the top of the tire and the wheel well. It sat entirely too high. It may have been just those 4 cars, but they all sat close to a foot above the highest point of the tire. 263 horses doesn't make any sense either. Why would Mitsu make a car with close to EVO numbers and price it less? People are gonna stop buying the EVO because they can get comparable horsepower at a lower cost without the extra concerns and maintenance of a turbo.

I seen one in real life today. Its an improvement over the 3rd gen for sure but I still think the 2nd gen looks the best. The 4th gen looks much more like a 2nd gen now though.
Ditto for sure! I LOVE the second gen!! But this one is hot. I saw one last weekend out ridin around!

And as far as the hp bein close to the evo. The car is heavier if Im not mistaken, has less hp and torque, and is only fwd. So yes comparable hp but still SLOWER! And the EVO is very practucal w/ four doors! I think its a good idea to boost the power that high, it'll add variety to Mitsu's REAL sports car lineup. And I really dont care how much it weighs. Im more of a muscle car guy anyways, but those days are almost all but gone so I'll stick to wantin a Cobalt SS.

its not even close competition for the evo. Cobizzle already covered many of the points but in addition the EVO handles better, stops better and is going to respond to mods better.

You were running 3-4 pounds under the stock boost levels and making 80 more whp??? Hmmm........
Ok, after re-reading my post (which I normally do BEFORE i look stupid), I am not sure why I typed in 8. It was pretty late that night, and I really don't know why I typed 8. I was running 12LBS for daily ddriving, and would have run more if I had ever brought it to the track. Sorry, didn't mean to sound THAT stupid.

The lil add in article inside the new Eclipse GT article in the new MT says that Mitsu WILL survive. It says that (pretty much) the Japanese people wont LET it die. Not sure how they plan to pull it off but who cares long as they stick around. They are in a similar situation as GM basically. Not sure which is worse off, but I think both companies will survive. BTW that new Eclipse is BAD!!!!! I would be willin to bet it is a high 13 sec car in stock form, the mag editors pulled a 14.2, and we all know what exceptionally professional drivers mag editors are! :rolleyes: But it runs for a pricey $28,xxx!!! :eek: Holy SHAT thats almost an EVO!!!!

cars too heavy steering is numb and has way too much body roll... but its a ok car. i wouldn't buy one... and at 28k.. i paid 28,450 for my evo..no way......

My old roommate in college had a 91 Talon TSi AWD and that thing would flat out fly!! He had stage three hardware throughout the engine but did not touch the tranny at all and that was it's only flaw (he went through three in two years). A company local to NE Ohio and Norwalk Raceway, called Buschur Racing specialized in the Talon/Eclipse turbos and made ridiculous power out of that motor! With the mods my roomate had done to it, Buschur told him that his HP numbers were somewhere in the 400HP range. The car was a little tough to drive because it would only go fast and ran through the gears way too quick. He never ran at the track but had many races on open roads against some cars that should have been pretty fast and it was never close. It is awefully tough for a high HP RWD car to get off the line like the AWD Talons/Eclipses!!!

My old roommate in college had a 91 Talon TSi AWD and that thing would flat out fly!! He had stage three hardware throughout the engine but did not touch the tranny at all and that was it's only flaw (he went through three in two years). A company local to NE Ohio and Norwalk Raceway, called Buschur Racing specialized in the Talon/Eclipse turbos and made ridiculous power out of that motor! With the mods my roomate had done to it, Buschur told him that his HP numbers were somewhere in the 400HP range. The car was a little tough to drive because it would only go fast and ran through the gears way too quick. He never ran at the track but had many races on open roads against some cars that should have been pretty fast and it was never close. It is awefully tough for a high HP RWD car to get off the line like the AWD Talons/Eclipses!!!
Buschur Racing is a pretty big name in ALL mitsu stuff I believe. Yeah, the biggest week spot in all eclipses was the tranny. The crankwalkign was a problem, but could also be cured. The trannies though, they were horrible.

Buschur Racing is a pretty big name in ALL mitsu stuff I believe. Yeah, the biggest week spot in all eclipses was the tranny. The crankwalkign was a problem, but could also be cured. The trannies though, they were horrible.

here we go with the bad crankwalk thing again....

crankwalk is a 7 bolt aka=2 gen problem.. not a 6 bolt (1st gen) problem. and it wasn't the trannys it was the weak 3 bolt rear ends. buschur stuff is cool but there are a lot of "other" companies out that do the same for a bit cheaper.

The trannies are a TERRIBLE weak spot on the car, I dont know what youre talking about. A friend of mine has rebuilt atleast 3 of them so far and knows them in and out, and the dudes a friggin genius and seriously knows his shit. I wish I could remember what the exact parts were that he said were the weakest, but I know there was a few parts in there that might as well be made of glass they are so weak.

but I know there was a few parts in there that might as well be made of glass they are so weak.
Nothing tops my VW's tranny. They used rivets to hold the differential gears in place. The rivets tend to pop out and slam around inside the differential.

I now have a 1 inch hole in my differential from a rivet shooting out of it. I'll post a pic if anyone wants to see it...

Haha thats pretty sweet, post that shit up!!!

Go to http://forums.vwvortex.com/ and do an archived search on SMS(self machining syndrome).

And my thread on SCR about it... http://www.sportcompactracing.com/vbulletin/t45472-my-tranny-exploded.html

Here is a pic of my differential...
http://www.sportcompactracing.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=10399&stc=1

here we go with the bad crankwalk thing again....

crankwalk is a 7 bolt aka=2 gen problem.. not a 6 bolt (1st gen) problem. and it wasn't the trannys it was the weak 3 bolt rear ends. buschur stuff is cool but there are a lot of "other" companies out that do the same for a bit cheaper.
some of the post 92 1st gens had a 7bolt.

here we go with the bad crankwalk thing again....

crankwalk is a 7 bolt aka=2 gen problem.. not a 6 bolt (1st gen) problem. and it wasn't the trannys it was the weak 3 bolt rear ends. buschur stuff is cool but there are a lot of "other" companies out that do the same for a bit cheaper.
Yeah, I'm aware that it's the 7 bolt problem (2nd gen) as I had a 99 GS-t. And I know Buschur has expensive stuff compared to others, but they still do make good products. And yeah, the trannies were pretty weak.

just a note of point

talons/lasers/eclipses werent the only dsm products

the 3000gt/stealth was also dsm products. they just dont have the acolades/infamy that the eclipse/talon/laser cars have/had.

the 3000gt/stealth was also dsm products. they just dont have the acolades/infamy that the eclipse/talon/laser cars have/had.

It was just a matter of availability with the Talons/Eclipses/lasers.... They were cheap to buy so they were all over the place but try to pick up a VR4 or an RT TT, good luck. The Talon and clones were just so readily available that it made sense for the aftermarket companies to favor them.

My buddies Talon was damn fast but those trannies were just horrible. Then again, I do not know many 4 cylinder designed trannies that can handle 400hp....

TRE makes a GREAT trans. I know, I had one. Why you might ask, because my stock car busted the 3rd gear hub and that was that.

The cars that are NOT turbo editions were running the 420a and are NOT dsms (2nd gen). The first gens ran a non-turbo version of the 4G63.

The EVO is NOT a DSM. The power/price thing with the 4th Gen Eclipse is a joke. They are not even remotely close to eachother in anything OTHER than paper HP numbers. The EVO is a flat out beast while the Eclipse is a 2 door sport coupe that was desprately needing a redesign.

There was even a production (I think 3) GULL-winged 1st gen produced in Japan.

The new Eclipse is pretty fast. I have a bone stock SRT-4 and it stayed behind me after my initial torque pull. Not too shabby.


The reliability thing is why I got rid of mine. Not because it was breaking down, but because it was going to break down eventually. It was a 97 with 40k miles on the original motor with a nice ML HG and a FWD/AWD tranny from TRE. It was strong, but not enough for me to rely on with a new baby on the way.

DSM's Rule haha that is why I have both my SS and DSM (hence the name). True but for the price to power you get with a DSM, it is uncomparable to any import (maybe a 240 that you turbo). Spend 7k for a 11 second car? wow!

DSM's Rule haha that is why I have both my SS and DSM (hence the name). True but for the price to power you get with a DSM, it is uncomparable to any import (maybe a 240 that you turbo). Spend 7k for a 11 second car? wow!

What about my import(Datsun Z car) or old Volkswagons? Spend 3k for 10s. ;)

Wait I'm wrong a DSM isnt a import! haha

I have alot of friends with dsms. Great cars if you like to go fast and have money, the turboed version are flippen fast with a huge aftermarket and the 95+ bodys are sexy. But they are expensive cars to maintain, seems like every month you have something new to fix.

I have alot of friends with dsms. Great cars if you like to go fast and have money, the turboed version are flippen fast with a huge aftermarket and the 95+ bodys are sexy. But they are expensive cars to maintain, seems like every month you have something new to fix.

Contradict yourself much???

^^^how so? They are good cars if you like to go fast, you just need money to maintain them?

^^^how so? They are good cars if you like to go fast, you just need money to maintain them?


Great cars if you like to go fast and have money,

then you go on to say....

But they are expensive cars to maintain

Maybe your first sentence was just written wrong. I took it as they are great cars if you like to go fast and have money [left over].

:rolleyes: He meant they are cheap to buy, but can be expensive to maintain.... ;)

:rolleyes: He meant they are cheap to buy, but can be expensive to maintain.... ;)

I guess...if you don't know what you are doing. They are still part of the top 5 bang for buck cars.