Cobalts SS banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There is 174 HP 2.4 L Engin SS package right? (I hope so from what I've been reading) Couldn't I use parts that are designed for the 2.4L engin not nessasarly Cobalt specific (IE headers for a Sunfire GT, that has a 2.4L Ecotech), and would you think there would be more hp gain in a turbo than a s/c SS. Money really isn't a problem, so I would like to get a car that I could make a project of sort. I just wish there where more parts out for it. Lemme know if you think that this is possible.

- Thanks SpAwN
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
498 Posts
Thought they were coming out with a N/A SS this summer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
There is going to be TWO SS's for the 2006 model year. One is going to be the SS/SC and then there is going to be a SS with the 2.4L in it.

I would assume you can use parts from the other 2.4L Ecotec applications since the Ecotec is a modular engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Matt said:
no the 2.4l is not an SS, only the SC 2.0 is the SS.
You're wrong, I drove an SS Automatic last week and posted pics of it in the media section. It is not supercharged though, which may be what you meant... but it still said "SS" on the side, and it was still fast as hell. Not quite as fast as the SS/SC though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
SpAwN said:
There is 174 HP 2.4 L Engin SS package right? (I hope so from what I've been reading)
Yes, it's an all new version of the ECOTEC called the LE5 with bigger bore+longer stroke AND with Variable Valve Timing (VVT)
SpAwN said:
Couldn't I use parts that are designed for the 2.4L engin not nessasarly Cobalt specific (IE headers for a Sunfire GT, that has a 2.4L Ecotech),
If your talking about the 2002 Jbodies, that 2.4 was a Quad4 not an ECOTEC - totally differnet engine, parts wont swap
SpAwN said:
and would you think there would be more hp gain in a turbo than a s/c SS.
Boost is boost- it's become a cliché- but you can take it to the bank. So given the same engine @12 psi boost* whether produced by a SC or a TC will for the most part deliver the similar peak HP on that engine. (*increasing charge air temp differences are generally offset by the increasing HP required to spin the supercharger)[/quote]
SpAwN said:
Money really isn't a problem, so I would like to get a car that I could make a project of sort. I just wish there where more parts out for it. Lemme know if you think that this is possible. - Thanks SpAwN
Well I dont know how long it will be before we see a boosted version of the LE5- rumor has it that it very likely will be a Sky Redline. We shall see, should be sweet though...240-250HP??
Regards
WopOnTour
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Allrighty Thanks for the info, I plan on buying a book here shortly explaining all about turbochargers, Hoping to find or be able to modify one to work with that engine. And yes I know that a turbo wont do as much w/o the usuall upgrades :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
WopOnTour said:
Boost is boost- it's become a cliché- but you can take it to the bank. So given the same engine @12 psi boost* whether produced by a SC or a TC will for the most part deliver the similar peak HP on that engine. (*increasing charge air temp differences are generally offset by the increasing HP required to spin the supercharger)
Uhhhhh, might want to take a step back and review your post. It seems that you made a slight oversight, one of which I am sure you were aware (from the other parts of your post), but simply missed;

The engine will indeed produce similar GROSS horsepower/torque numbers if the boost is the same, that much is true, however the boost from a turbo comes at the cost of some additional back pressure. Not that big of a deal. A supercharger gets its input from the crank of the engine. That is a big deal. At a guess, I would say the s/c takes at least 40 horses at full boost to spin it.

So, (assuming my estimate of 40 horses is correct, and it probably is at least that much) that means that the blower is sapping that much power off the crank and the NET output of the engine will be correspondingly lower. There is not that much heat difference between compressed air from a turbo and a s/c. Especially after running through a cooler. Certainly no where near as much temp difference to account for the power needed to drive a s/c.



So, pound for pound of boost, a turbo is more efficient at putting more power into the transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
DigDug said:
Uhhhhh, might want to take a step back and review your post. <SNIP>So, pound for pound of boost, a turbo is more efficient at putting more power into the transmission.

Yea, I hear ya. I wasn’t really an oversight as much as an over-simplification in my answer to Spawns question. I hate the term “gains”, because it really depends on what you hope to “gain”.
My explanation was essential concentrating on gross crankshaft HP being produced, not WHP ie if an independently driven supercharger and turbocharger were producing 12psi into an engine – peak HP would be very much equal.

You are of course totally correct regarding the additional HP necessary to compensate for the ever-increasing parasitic losses associated with powering the supercharger. (And if you read my post, I alluded to this)

I won’t/can’t argue with much of what you have posted, turbochargers are in fact lb/lb more efficient than superchargers. This is especially true when looking at strictly “peak” numbers. But the ability of the supercharger to provide near instantaneous boost pressures, can in most cases provide a much broader band of power throughout the engine’s entire rpm range- delivering more “useful” horsepower.


My intent was not to turn this into a supercharging vs turbocharging (lets not go there) with my simplified explanation, but more a quick response to the question that arose regarding ditching the SC in favor of a TC. My response SHOULD have been “What do you hope to gain??”


In short if you plan to strictly drag-race or dyno-race the car, you will want a turbo. There are already well documented buildup plans out there to get 1400HP+ from the ECOTEC- you would likely never get there with a supercharger. Go for it! (I wish I could afford to :)
JMO
WopOnTour
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The answer in what I hope to gain is simple. One of my good friends belives that, in no matter what condition, a V8 will always be able to beat a 4 banger. He has a camaro with a 350 small block in it, and the power output is roughly 365 HP with all his other modifacations. But when I said I wanted to buy a cobalt his reply was something like this....
"Isn't cobalt an element?"
"Well, yes it is..."
"I guess that makes the Cobalt an Element as well..."
Let alone all his beefed up cavalier jokes. So basically I want to take a 4 banger and tune it up to the point to where I know that it can beat his cars ass. I figured a turbocharger would be more efficant for cost vs. HP ratio, but just wanted to make sure first. But lately I have been reading about these S/C AND Turbocharger kits that are supposed to be coming out. How exactly will that work? If it would work better than a strait turbo I may get the S/C instead... Just some thoughts...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
SpAwN said:
The answer in what I hope to gain is simple. One of my good friends belives that, in no matter what condition, a V8 will always be able to beat a 4 banger. He has a camaro with a 350 small block in it, and the power output is roughly 365 HP with all his other modifacations. But when I said I wanted to buy a cobalt his reply was something like this....
"Isn't cobalt an element?"
"Well, yes it is..."
"I guess that makes the Cobalt an Element as well..."
Let alone all his beefed up cavalier jokes. So basically I want to take a 4 banger and tune it up to the point to where I know that it can beat his cars ass. I figured a turbocharger would be more efficant for cost vs. HP ratio, but just wanted to make sure first. But lately I have been reading about these S/C AND Turbocharger kits that are supposed to be coming out. How exactly will that work? If it would work better than a strait turbo I may get the S/C instead... Just some thoughts...
Fair enough
Your friends comments are not uncommon, but of course it's all relative when it comes to the " there's no replacement for displacement" (V8 vs the world) mentality. You wanna beat your buddy in a 1/4 mile drag race in the near future? Shouldn’t be a problem, (it'll only take $$) but your best immediate "Cobalt" option will be the SS/SC IMO.
It might, with the right set of wheels/tires, even make it close STOCK as right now the best "stock" numbers we are hearing reported for the LSJ equipped Redline are mid to low 14s on stock rubber. Given the HP numbers you provided (WHP on dyno? or "estimate?) and the bloated weight of the Camaro (depending on what he's done chassis-wise) it wont that much quicker maybe mid-low 13s.

Then there are already a myriad of kits on the verge of release, that when combined with an upgraded exhaust system, will (reportedly) bring the LSJ up to 16-20 psi of boost, and 250 to 300 WHP. This will almost certainly take the SS/SC and Redlines into the low 13s or better.

These kits generally will include a smaller SC pulley and necessary belting, improved fuel system components such HO fuel pump+Injectors. Some also include a fuel pump amplifier to help provide higher pressures on the "return-less" system. Almost ALL include various "piggyback" controllers and electronic feedback "blockers" of some sort to prevent the LSJ fuel management system from defaulting into "reduced power" mode when boost pressures and other parameters exceed preprogrammed limits.

I predict the first to hit the market will be the PSI-FI kit (approx $800), with Gravana close behind and many others slated for "next season" as most have been developing their product on the Redline for over a year, in anticipation of a ballooning market, with the release of the Chevy Cobalt SS/SC. PSI-FI also has a "twin-charging" solution in the works, adding a turbo charger to work INCONJUCTION with the supercharger!

I have yet to hear of anyone actively working on a boost kit for the LE5 (2.4 VVT) as of yet. That doesn’t mean they will NOT eventually be available, but again it will likely take a year or two before you start seeing HP in kit form. That doesn’t mean it couldn’t be accomplished as a DIY, but that project IMO will not be without more than a few "hurdles".
Good Luck on your quest!

JMO
WopOnTour
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
This is great, I come over here, and who are the first two names I see? *** and Goofy. It's like I never left home. For you Cobalt guys, if *** keeps coming here, you will have someone who can seemingly answer ANY auto question you can think of. And if he by some odd chance doesn't know, he knows someone who knows. Feel lucky, and keep up the interest for modding the LSJ's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks again for the info, I think I will go with the SS S/C then. I can't wait to see the look on his face when a 4 banger can beat him ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
SpAwN said:
Thanks again for the info, I think I will go with the SS S/C then. I can't wait to see the look on his face when a 4 banger can beat him ;-)
A "four banger" ECOTEC Cobalt recently became the first FWD to reach 200mph in the 1/4 and LAST year an ECOTEC powered Saturn ION became the 1st FWD in the 7s. Just goes to prove there's more than 1 way to skin the cat!!
WopOnTour
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,187 Posts
WopOnTour said:
A "four banger" ECOTEC Cobalt recently became the first FWD to reach 200mph in the 1/4 and LAST year an ECOTEC powered Saturn ION became the 1st FWD in the 7s. Just goes to prove there's more than 1 way to skin the cat!!
WopOnTour
This is why i am getting a Cobalt SS because i have learned with owning a Camaro although it is not a V-8 but all of my freind who have owned a V-8 they have complained so much about the gas mileage so why not go with a "4 bagger" that can just about out a V-8 car but i am not saying it can i am just saying that there are a few V-8's out there only have a few more HP than my V-6 and get much worse MPG.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top