[cobaltssblue]

wondering if you could put a regular or aftermarket intake on w/throttle body and then turbo it? the vaccume connections could be made about the same and all the connections would work.

 

[NIVO88T]

well being that it's already supercharged why get rid of it? you can twin charge it.

lower boost on the supercharger to around 6-8psi and throw a turbo on the exhaust side, add the oil lines, tap the oil pan. and boost a few more pounds into the motor with the turbo.

I believe Psi-Fi just got a Ion Redline to prototype parts for the redline and Cobalt ss s/c.

 

[cobaltssblue]

i think that the turbo s/c is kinda scary. i have seen th cooper kit and i know it sounds good...... but i think that i will stick with a s/c. also what kind aof no2 will this motor take? i herd that some magazine made 500hp on the stock bottom w/ a turbo at 20psi and a 100 shot? that was a crapolier 2.4l motor.

 

[Nocturn]

Well while you CAN turbo a SC car, the benefits don't really seem that great for the cost. I know that the ecotec has been made to withstand a good amount, and with a SC the increased air can be cooled by the N20 so you can run more than a NA engine, but I wouldn't push more than a 150 shot without doing more research.

 

[[email protected]]

Well while you CAN turbo a SC car, the benefits don't really seem that great for the cost. I know that the ecotec has been made to withstand a good amount, and with a SC the increased air can be cooled by the N20 so you can run more than a NA engine, but I wouldn't push more than a 150 shot without doing more research.

The benefits are surely worth the cost. On our Mini twincharger kit we have bumped power on pump gas up 120+whp. The power increase can go much higher as we still have another 100whp left in the turbo if we crank the boost up. Performance wise the twincharger kit puts the Cooper S into another league entirely dropping 1/4 mile Ets about 1.5-2 second and bringing trap speeds up from low 90's to 105+ on pump gas and street tires.

The Redline and Cobalt SS have a very efficient Laminova air to water intercooler, these intercoolers have been tested to about 86% efficiency. GM did the intercooling system right on these cars with a very large front mount heat exchanger as well. This type of intercooler can deal with the thermal load increases from increased boost as well as twincharging. We are currently developing parts(pulleys, Engine management, driveline products etc. as well as the aforementioned twincharger kit) for this platform. The beauty of twincharging over nitrous is the power is there all of the time and if tuned correctly the car runs around town feeling like stock till you hit the loud pedal then its all business!

 

[cobaltssblue]

sounds good mark but i'm still skeptical. another idea you can help me with then is WHAT IF...... you removed all the plumbing for the water intercooler except the cooler itself. then used a c02 system to attach to the factory cooler and pumper the c02 into the cooler? it would be like sprayting the outside with no2 and alot cheaper?

 

[[email protected]]

sounds good mark but i'm still skeptical. another idea you can help me with then is WHAT IF...... you removed all the plumbing for the water intercooler except the cooler itself. then used a c02 system to attach to the factory cooler and pumper the c02 into the cooler? it would be like sprayting the outside with no2 and alot cheaper?

Funny you say this... we have an air to water IC built into our racecars intake manifold. NHRA this year outlawed a/w ICs in sport FWD class but they are allowing us to spray either CO2 or nitrous into what was the water jacket. You could possible do this on the Redline/cobalt SS but its more of a race only mod as youd constantly have to purge the gas into the IC to keep it cooled down.

 

[cobaltssblue]

maybe a second smaller cooler of some type with that set up? spraying the outside of the cooler seems terribly in efficent and a waste of spray. maybe if you sprayed the co2 into the water mix in the resivor? then it would super cool the water?

 

[Nocturn]

The benefits are surely worth the cost. On our Mini twincharger kit we have bumped power on pump gas up 120+whp. The power increase can go much higher as we still have another 100whp left in the turbo if we crank the boost up. Performance wise the twincharger kit puts the Cooper S into another league entirely dropping 1/4 mile Ets about 1.5-2 second and bringing trap speeds up from low 90's to 105+ on pump gas and street tires.

By twin charging do you mean dual superchargers or a turbo and a SC?

 

[cobaltssblue]

he means both turbo and super. where would the intercooler be in this setup?

 

[Pablo]

All I think you would need is a more efficient Charger, no need to screw around with a dual setup just do it the old way with a big charger and a lot of boost

 

[Nocturn]

All I think you would need is a more efficient Charger, no need to screw around with a dual setup just do it the old way with a big charger and a lot of boost

I agree. with todays superchargers they can make upwards of 45 PSI depending on what your looking for, it does draw more parasitic loss, but the advantages of straping on a turbo just for more top end is kinda redundant in my book, when a SC is already on the car and provides good power up top.

 

[[email protected]]

I agree. with todays superchargers they can make upwards of 45 PSI depending on what your looking for, it does draw more parasitic loss, but the advantages of straping on a turbo just for more top end is kinda redundant in my book, when a SC is already on the car and provides good power up top.

A properly matched twincharge setup provides more power everywhere from the point the turbo starts feeding the blower. heres a dyno showing our base twincharge kit(stock pulley, stock exhaust,20 psi boost) after initial tuning as compared to a modified JCW car(exhaust,ecu,head,smaller pulley). FYI stock cooper S have 150whp

more power is made from throttle tip in to redline the limit to the power production is dictated by how much turbo boost you feed the blower. Currently the car is making about 275whp after we did some more tuning and dropped blower boost 3 psi and added it back in with the turbo. Funny thing is our AITs are the same at 20 psi twincharged boost as they were at 15psi supercharged only boost. The intercooler on the SS and redline is head and shoulders better than the Cooper S so I'd say everything will be A-Ok in the intercooler dept.

 

[Pablo]

Wow, after seeing that dyne I can't argue with the guys at psi-fi, seems like this is a good idea, my only concern would be how much will this cost in the end and will the be fitment issues. Other than that looks like a great way to make a ton of power.

 

[cobaltssblue]

I agreee the twin charger does look very convincing. I like a company who can back mtheir claims up with cold hard dyno numbers. The dyno dosen't lie. Now cost and installation charges? i'm still having a hard time with finding your web site.

 

[[email protected]]

Wow, after seeing that dyne I can't argue with the guys at psi-fi, seems like this is a good idea, my only concern would be how much will this cost in the end and will the be fitment issues. Other than that looks like a great way to make a ton of power.

Fitment issues none as we are going to fabricate it on the car and have everything custom made. Cost is up in the air till we have our final parts cost list.

 

[cobaltssblue]

Keep it under 2g's and I'll buy one....

 

[Nocturn]

Fitment issues none as we are going to fabricate it on the car and have everything custom made. Cost is up in the air till we have our final parts cost list.

So your comparing your twin charge setup to a modified supercharger setup? Excuse me if I am interpreting the chart wrong, but idealy wouldnt a fair comparison be between both setups running the same PSI on their original parts? I.E. the SC at 15 PSI, vs the twin charge at 15 PSI? of coarse your system is going to make more power if it puts out more PSI.

 

[Pablo]

Keep it under 2g's and I'll buy one....

Hehe I'm sure it would be in the $3,500+ range like aftermarket turbo kits, which wouldn't be too bad, I guess we have to give it time and just see waht happens, I mean the car is just now slowly appering at dealerships.

 

[[email protected]]

So your comparing your twin charge setup to a modified supercharger setup? Excuse me if I am interpreting the chart wrong, but idealy wouldnt a fair comparison be between both setups running the same PSI on their original parts? I.E. the SC at 15 PSI, vs the twin charge at 15 PSI? of coarse your system is going to make more power if it puts out more PSI.

Hell yes Im comparing a JCW to our twincharger, the cost is the same and the service to do the mods is greater, i'd put my $ on same boost level power to go to the twincharged setup as well...
Psi means nothing in all reality its CFM of air flow thats all important. The factory supercharger pushed to the limit is no match for a twincharged system. Even at as low a bost limit as 15psi the factory eaton will be beaten badly in CFM flow/power production. I know its cool to root for the little guy but in this case its a loosing battle from the word go.